I have noted at times in this blog my journey from a Dispensational, pre-Millennium, pre-Tribulation theology of the end times to a Historical, pre-Millennium, post-Tribulation theology.  You can read those articles by clicking the Eschatology link here or in the right column.  In this article I have simply listed one of the key reasons I am not a Dispensationalist any longer.  For Dispensational theology to work, one must believe a radical separation between Israel and the church as distinct peoples of God.  However, I don’t believe the scriptures make that distinction.

          The death of Dispensational theology is found in these words of Paul:  “Consider Abraham: ‘He believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.’  Understand, then, that those who believe are children of Abraham.  The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: ‘All nations will be blessed through you.’  So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.” (Galatians 3:6-9)   And “You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.  There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.  If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.” (Galatians 3:26-29)

          I don’t think it could be more clear.  Those who believe are children of Abraham.  If you believe you are Abraham’s seed.  In fact, Abraham “is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them.” (Romans 4:11)  We who believe in Jesus are Israel.

          I have written some in the past about my pilgrimage from Dispensational pre-millennium, pre-tribulation theology to Historic pre-millennium, post-tribulation theology.  Here is another thought from Matthew 24.  Once before, I blogged on this chapter, and it’s parallel in Mark 13.  In both chapters Jesus describes what has to be the Great Tribulation, then he adds what will happen “immediately after those days,” including, “he will send his angels with a loud trumpet to gather his elect from the four winds.” (Mt 24:29-31; Mk 13:24-27)  Today I noticed that in the midst that description of the Great Tribulation, Jesus says “There will great distress, unequaled from the beginning of time until now – and never to be equaled again.  If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect, they will be cut short.” (Mt 24:21-22; see also Mk 13:19-20)

          What could Jesus possibly mean by “for the sake of the elect?”  There are three possibilities: First, he could mean the elect have been raptured and are all with him, and he shortens the Tribulation for them. But that is senseless; there is no reason to shorten the pains of others for the sake of those who suffer nothing.  Second, he could mean those who come to Jesus during the Great Tribulation.  This is the standard Dispensational explanation, as I remember it.  But the biblical indications are that people on earth during the Great Tribulation will curse God rather than turn to him (see Rev 9:20-21; 16:9, 11, 21).  The third possible understanding of Jesus’ words is also the simplest and best understanding – the elect are still on earth during the Tribulation.  They will be gathered from the earth immediately after it, and for their sake God will end it.

          The other day I was pondering the destruction expressed by the trumpets of God’s wrath in Revelation 8.  When John saw the trumpets blown, a third of the earth was burned, along with a third of the trees and all of the grass; a third of the sea was destroyed with the creatures in it; a third of the water on earth became bitter and many died from drinking it; a third of the sun, moon and stars were darkened.  To people raised in an “earth-first” environmental mindset, this sounds wasteful.  But God created the universe, so it is his to do with as he pleases.  When it has served its purpose as is, God will destroy it for his greater glory.  This earth is not about environmentalism or humanism, as good as those causes might be; this earth, and the universe it is in, is all about the glory of God!  Rather than an “earth-first” mindset, we should instead have a “God-first” mindset.  The heavens declare the glory of God.

          On a related note, I see another place where the literal blow-by-blow interpretation of Revelation advocated by Dispensationalists contradicts itself.  In the first trumpet, all of the grass on earth is burned up; but in the fifth trumpet, the locusts were told not to harm the grass of the earth!  Again, we should read Revelation as “repetitions on a theme” and not as a blow-by-blow account of the end times.  For more of my thoughts on this matter, check out the other entries under the eschatology catagory.

Psalm 17:14-15.  Those who claim the OT doesn’t teach an afterlife simply don’t read it close enough.  This passage seems pretty clear to me.  (Though admittedly, I don’t know how much my translation is affected by NT thought.  It would be interesting to see a Jewish translation of this and other such Psalms.)  David prays against his enemies, and one of the lines is “By your hand save me from such people, LORD, from those of this world whose reward is this life.”  The clear implication is that there is a reward beyond this life.  Now with just that said, some Jews might claim that reward is a legacy, but the next verse overrules that interpretation: “As for me, I will be vindicated and will see your face; when I awake, I will be satisfied with seeing your likeness.”  The only possible understanding of that is an afterlife in God’s presence.  Those who love God can look forward to all eternity with him.  Even the OT saints recognized that to be their reward.

            P.S.  Another thought on this passage is that we should have the same perspective about the afterlife as David.  So often, in our Christian circles anyway, heaven is expressed in terms of what we get, what we want, etc., but heaven should be expressed in terms of seeing Jesus.  Our attitude should be “when I awake, I will be satisfied with seeing your likeness.”  Heaven is not about us; heaven is about Jesus.  When I teach the book of Revelation, I show how Jesus is the focus of the book.  Since much of John’s vision is what takes place in heaven, this truth can be seen in that book also.  Never are the resurrected saints the focus/purpose in heaven.  Jesus is always the focus, and he deserves all the praise that can be given.  Our reward is not gold crowns and not jewels in those crowns; our reward is not mansions aligning gold streets; our reward is not even seeing the saints that have gone before us, though that may happen.  Our reward is Jesus!

            P.P.S.  Twice now I thought I was done writing only to have a further thought on this matter.  If we will be satisfied in the afterlife with Jesus alone, if he alone is our reward there, then we should be satisfied with Jesus alone here.  I always look to many other things for satisfaction, but only he should be our joy, our fullness, our satisfaction, our life.  “Whom have I in heaven but you?  And earth has nothing I desire besides you.  My strength and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever.” (Psalm 72:23)  “I said to the LORD, ‘You are my Lord; apart from you I have no good thing.’” (Psalm 16:3)

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4.  This is another passage that helps explain my migration from a pre-tribulation theology to post-tribulation theology.  In this passage, “the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ” and “our being gathered to him” – certainly the rapture of the church – are equated as one event, simply “that day.”  Then we are told “that day will not come until the man of lawlessness is revealed.”  This man of lawlessness must be the one often referred to as the antichrist. (That is the incorrect biblical term.  In the NT, every time “antichrist” is used, it is a reference to anyone who opposes Jesus.  See 1 John 2:18-25, 4:1-3.  We should instead call this one the beast or the lawless one.)  This man of lawlessness will “oppose and exalt himself over everything that is called God . . . proclaiming himself to be God.”  There are only two explanations for this chronology: either the beast will be revealed before the beginning of the Great Tribulation or the rapture takes place after the Great Tribulation.  The last of those two choices is the only one that makes any sense at all.

Isaiah 65-66.  I was pondering heaven in my Bible reading this morning.  We have so many misconceptions about it.  The popular notions have heaven as a place where we can do all the pleasures we missed on earth – where we can live lives similar to what we have here, only happier.  Of course, Jesus dismissed that notion in Matthew 22:23  I don’t claim to know much about the subject, as I’ve never studied it in detail, but here are some thoughts I gleaned from the last two chapters of Isaiah this morning.  The section starts out with the words, “See, I will create a new heaven and a new earth.”  Though many things in this section are couched in symbolic terms, here are the thoughts that stood out to me this morning.

            First, heaven is only for God’s people.  There is much in the last two chapters of Isaiah telling of the destruction of those who do not know God.  “They have chosen their own ways, and they delight in their abominations; so I also will choose harsh treatment for them and bring on them what they dread.”  “His fury will be shown to his foes.” (66:3f, 14)  But the good things promised are for his people;“so will be the days of my people.”   It’s about those “who are humble and contrite in spirit and who tremble at my word.”

            Second, though heaven is only for God’s people, his people will come from every nation on earth.  “I am about to come and gather the people of all nations and languages.”  (66:18, see also verse 20)  The Jews thought only they were God’s people; some denominations and churches think only they are God’s people; some Americans think only they are God’s people; etc, etc.  People who think that underestimate the grace of God and overestimate their own righteousness.

            Third, heaven is marked by joy and comfort.  The words rejoice, joy, delight are repeated numerous times in this section.  Comfort is mentioned many times also, and that comfort is often tied to joy.  For example 65:18-19 says “Be glad and rejoice forever in what I will create, for I will create Jerusalem to be a delight and its people a joy.  I will rejoice over Jerusalem and take delight in my people; the sound of weeping and crying will be heard in it no more”   (See also 66:10-13)

            Finally, heaven is all about God – about his glory and his praise.  Notice that the joy in heaven is the joy of God, and the comfort of heaven is comfort from God.  “This is what he LORD says, ‘I will extend peace to her like a river and the wealth of nations like a flooding stream. . . .  As a mother comforts her child, so will I comfort you; and you will be comforted over Jerusalem.’” (66:12-13)  “I will rejoice over Jerusalem and take delight in my people.”  (65:19)  The reason heaven has people of all nations is so that those who have not heard of God’s fame and glory will proclaim his glory among the nations.  “They will come and see my glory.” (66:18-19)  We usually present heaven in terms of what we will get out of it, what it will be like for us, typical of human-centered religion.  But heaven should be presented as the ultimate revelation to us of the glory of God.  Even heaven is God-focused and God-centered.  “Let the LORD be glorified that we may see your joy!”

In our recent Sunday class on end times, I told of my journey from a Dispensational Pre-Millennium, Pre-Tribulation understanding to an Historic Pre-Millennium, Post-Tribulation understanding.  I wasn’t able to give all the references and reasons.  Here are some notes from devotion times in recent years that have influenced that migration.

Mark 13 The more I read the more I become a Post-Trib.  I see no other way around passages like this.  Jesus is not just talking about the destruction of Jerusalem that was to come in 70AD, because of words like (v26) “At that time, men will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds.”  Yet he says of the troubles (v19) “Those will be days of distress unequaled from the beginning … and never to be equaled again.”  If this is not the “Great Tribulation,” as Pre-Mills like to call it, then it is something far worse, because it will never be equaled again!  Isn’t it the Pre-Mills who pride themselves on “literal interpretation” of the Bible?  The only literal interpretation I can imagine is that this description is the Great Tribulation.  Yet two different times in this same context, Jesus implies that the elect will be in that Tribulation (vv20, 22).  Then he says “following that distress, the sun will be darkened … At that time, men will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds … and he will gather his elect.”  This is a Post-Trib passage to the max!

Revelation 7:9.  The older I get the more I wander away from the Pre-Tribulation rapture position that was so popular when I was a youth and interested in prophecy and end times.  I took a Pre-Trib position for my seminary paper, but came away from the study more convinced of the Post-Trib position than I’d ever been.  I’ve come to believe that passages like Mark 13 and Matthew 24 (a reference in my journal to the above note) teach a Post-Tribulation position.  Now I believe this passage in Revelation does the same.  John saw “a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, language and people.”  Later they are described as the ones “who came out of the great tribulation.”  If this is not all the saints, then one has to believe that a great many will come to know Jesus during the Great Tribulation, yet the descriptions of that period are descriptions of people in complete rebellion against God.  In spite of all the miracles they will see, they will not praise God, they will curse him.  (16:9, 11, etc.)  These in the white robes in chapter 7 must be all the saints not just those who might believe during a Tribulation period when no one is there to tell them the truth.

Revelation 15:2.  In a follow up to yesterday’s entry, here is another reference which denies the Pre-Tribulation idea:  There are, standing beside the sea, those who had been victorious over the beast and his image.  Who are these if they didn’t come through the Great Tribulation?  Maybe God is preparing me with a new understanding because he is about to do something amazing.  Then again, maybe I’m just seeing things anew as I get older.

Revelation – some general thoughts.  I am also becoming leery of the method I was taught to interpret Revelation – that is as a blow-by-blow, linear account of the end-times events.  The above passage is after the seven trumpets but before the seven plagues.  If those plagues are after the Tribulation, they don’t fit on anybody’s charts.  Jesus is supposed to return at the end of the Tribulation period, but here those who have overcome the beast are already in heaven and the wrath of the Tribulation hasn’t yet begun.  To take this as a blow-by-blow account, one would have to say that the Tribulation is described only in the earlier chapters of Revelation, and that all these plagues and trumpet woes are a period after that but before Jesus returns.  No charts of the literal/linear interpretations have such a period of time on them.  The literal/linear method leads to many contradictions at worst or many confusing issues at best.  I guess I should look more to the A-Mills who have often taught Revelation as repetition-on-a-theme book instead of blow-by-blow account.  That seems to fit the pattern better.

In addition, I also see some overlap in the plagues presented as seals, trumpets and bowls that would point to a repetition-on-a-theme understanding of Revelation.  For instance, the fourth seal tells of 1/4 of the earth dying, then the sixth trumpet tells of 1/3 of men dying.  The sixth seal says the stars fell from heaven (sounds like all of them), but in the third trumpet (later if we take a blow-by-blow understanding) another star falls and in the fourth trumpet 1/3 of the stars are made dark.  In both of these dark or black is mentioned, yet in the fifth bowl darkness comes over the earth.  I could go on to mention the thunder and lightning and blood which is repeated, but this suffices to give one the idea.